In NJ schools, teachers don't match the diversity of their students. Teens say that's a problem.

Across New Jersey, many districts are facing a question: How to better integrate schools that are segregated – an issue driven by the continuing segregation of communities that stems from years of redlining and economic disparities. A pending lawsuit looks to hold the state liable, and spur policies to do something about it.

Students of color face another challenge. They often don't see their own backgrounds reflected among the teachers responsible for educating them.

Catherine Carrera, the bureau chief at Chalkbeat Newark, and Talia Wiener, the education reporter at Montclair Local Nonprofit News, have both been speaking to students of color in their Essex County communities about their experiences in the classroom. They joined WNYC’s Michael Hill to speak about why students find it so important to see their own backgrounds reflected among their teachers.

The transcript of their discussion below has been lightly edited for clarity.

Michael Hill: Catherine, you cover New Jersey's largest city. Black and Latino students make up more than 90% of the student population in Newark. Yet, Black and Latino teachers account for just about half the staff. What's behind that disparity?

Catherine Carrera: We analyzed the most recent teacher and student demographic data and found that schools in Newark are pretty much split down the middle, serving mostly Black students or mostly Latino students, but the teacher demographic majorities who teach them vary. And we saw that on a closer look, Latino students are more likely to be underrepresented in the teaching staff.

So when we talk about teacher diversity and this wide disparity, we have to look at how we got here. And that takes us to the aftermath of Brown v. Board of Education. In the effort to integrate schools, people who held on to racist segregationist beliefs pushed back against the integration of school personnel.

This resistance led to widespread illegal firings and demotions of highly educated Black teachers. That had this lasting effect on our country's public school system.

But we also know through our reporting that it's not just about recruiting teachers of color, but also investing in retention.

Catherine, what does the research say about representation in terms of a student's chances of success?

Carrera: Well, having teachers who students from diverse backgrounds can identify with, racially and culturally, is just one component of teacher and school quality. But decades of research have shown teacher diversity can bring about long-lasting positive benefits, which include improved attendance, test scores and even the likelihood of taking an advanced course.

Talia, your reporting has focused on disparities in advanced placement classes, which give students a leg up as they apply for and enter college. You found that even though Montclair’s student population is about 50% white, nearly 70% of the students in AP classes are white. And then Black and Latino kids are significantly underrepresented. What do the students tell you about why they think that happens?

Talia Wiener: Yeah, so one student of color spoke to me about teachers discouraging students from taking AP courses.

She was sitting in class near the end of a school year and her teacher asked who was considering taking AP classes that following year. And several students of color did raise their hands right before the teacher launched into a speech warning of the challenges of the courses. The teacher went on to say the AP courses would be a lot of work, that if students have a job after school or have to take care of siblings or help parents out, then AP courses might not be a good fit for them.

And the student I spoke with said she felt like all the kids that fit into those categories were BIPOC students, that her white classmates often didn't have to work and had the resources that afforded them time to devote to classwork.

A week later, the teacher asked the same question, and only two students of color in the class, including the student I spoke with, raised their hands. The student told me it felt like the teacher was cheating these students out of an opportunity that could go on their transcripts and could help them out in their futures.

What do students of color in Montclair say about their experience in these AP classes?

Wiener: The students I spoke to say they just really struggle to find community in these classes, that they've kind of accepted that their friends would come from elsewhere — from clubs or extracurriculars or sports, and that was really hard for them, especially as they watch their white classmates spend time together outside of class and set up study groups.

And especially coming out of the pandemic and remote learning, all these students wanted to do was socialize again. And for BIPOC students and AP courses, that just didn't seem to be an option.

Catherine, according to your reporting, these disparities among teaching staff and students are widespread. What do you see in the disparity with the Hispanic student population and Hispanic teacher population in Newark?

Carrera: Yes, the population of Latino students has increased at a rate that far outpaces the incremental increases we're seeing of Latino teachers.

One of the students that we quoted in the story — her family immigrated to Newark from Brazil and so she and her sister had varying experiences in the school system. Her sister struggled going through the system and didn't have teachers who spoke her native Portuguese. But the other student, Melissa, had a different experience in that she had a teacher that spoke her language, her home language, in second grade. That had a huge positive effect on her, to the point where now she wants to become a bilingual teacher, and she’s studying to get her degree, and she wants to return to Newark to teach.

Talia, does the district you focus on plan to do anything to address any of the issues you you uncovered?

Wiener: They do. They say their goal is to increase staff diversity and ensure the diversity in each building mirrors that of the student body. And there's a variety of ways they're doing that and reaching out, but they've also acknowledged that this isn't a problem that's going to be easily fixed while dealing with budget cuts and a teacher shortage.