Emergency response times in New York City have been getting longer, year after year. That's according to Mayor Eric Adams’ annual management report.

City Councilmember Joann Ariola, who represents parts of Queens, and Oren Barzilay, president of EMS Local 2507 Uniformed EMTs, Paramedics, and Fire Inspectors of FDNY, joined WNYC’s Tiffany Hanssen to talk about the dangers of increases wait times.

The following interview has been lightly edited for clarity.

Tiffany Hanssen: Oren, after a call is made to 911,those first couple of minutes are critical, so I'm wondering what happens when responders just aren't quick enough?

Oren Barzilay: It's not a secret that after four to six minutes of not breathing, you're going to be pronounced either clinically or biologically dead. So when it takes us over 10 minutes to get to a critical incident, such as somebody who's not breathing, or having a stroke, or is choking, their life expectancy decreases significantly.

I'm curious what you've been hearing from your members, the emergency responders in Local 2507 about these longer wait times. What are they telling you in terms of why this is happening?

Barzilay: They can only do one assignment at a time. They are running across the city all day long, every day, 24 hours. The issue that they're faced with is the calls are coming in more rapidly in recent years, however, our resources have remained the same.

Before the merger of New York City EMS into the FDNY, we used to have nurses at our 911 call centers. And when they call of somebody, you know, breaking their nail or have an ingrown hair, toothache, that call would go to that nurse and that nurse will explain to them that they do not need an ambulance for this. Go to your local doctor. Go to an urgent care center.

You know, calling 911 and arriving at the hospital with an ambulance does not get you seen quicker. They'll be putting you in the waiting room with the rest of the people who are in the waiting room. It's a huge lift. And unless they bring back the nurses and start educating the public, this is going to be continuing. Well, for eternity.

Salaries start at around $40,000 annually — less than an app delivery worker. So how does that affect the number and the type of people that you can recruit for these positions.

Barzilay: Unfortunately the city — the Office of Management and Budget and the mayor's office — doesn't respect our men and women. We represent the largest [percentage] of people of color, largest group of women in the workforce, and starting salary is $18 an hour.

People just come here as a transitional city job until somebody else gives them a call from another city agency that pays them a hell of a lot more than FDNY EMS. Our average lifetime [in these jobs] is two to three years.

Experience has a huge impact on patient outcomes as well. You can be book savvy, you can be smart. However, if you don't recognize the symptoms of doing call after call after call, you start learning how the symptoms change from one call to the other. And our members have two to three years. They don't get to be exposed to what a 20-year person has been through.

Councilmember Ariola, let's talk about a meeting that you chaired earlier this month talking about the FDNY EMS response times. So what did the FDNY have to say about this?

Ariola: The FDNY historically does not complain. They don't ask for more money every year. We get our budget report and we have not, under the previous commissioner, we have not had any fiscal needs meetings or hearings. I'm hoping that this changes with the new commissioner. I think it will.

We're losing good talent to other agencies or they're just going through EMT training just to become a firefighter. It's just not right. We have to get more money for EMTs, more ambulances on our streets, more places for the ambulances to be stationed. So there's not so much gap time when they have to respond to an emergency.

There's an area in my district called Breezy Point. It's in such a gap area, if they call 911 for an EMS to come or an ambulance to come, it has to come from Brooklyn or way down on the peninsula. And we have seen fatalities in that area because of that. But for the amount of money that is getting paid, how long will those men and women — most of which are Black or brown, how will they be able to support a family that can't? We really have to put FDNY first in the budget process in the upcoming fiscal cycle.

Councilmember, we already have snarled traffic, an increase in the number of bike lanes, double parking and now congestion pricing; a $9 toll to enter Manhattan south of 60th Street. So I'm curious what you think about congestion pricing and what that would do to either help or maybe hurt emergency responders.

Ariola: I don't think that the congestion pricing is going to help at all because I think people will continue to come in with their cars because they don't feel that the subway system is reliable and/or safe. So we're still going to see the same amount of vehicles. There's also the issue of the city of New York closing streets arbitrarily and not notifying the FDNY. So oftentimes they're on their way to an emergency, whether it's an ambulance or a fire department rig, a ladder or engine, and they're not able to navigate through because they were never notified that those streets were closed.

Oren, what would you like to see city and state officials do most immediately to help first responders be able to do their job?

Barzilay: You know, one thing I forgot to mention before I answer this question is, I have members who live in shelters. I have members who live in their cars. I have members who live in their family house because they simply can't afford living in the city. So adding a $9 toll is going to be detrimental to my men and women. And my men and women will more than likely quit if this goes through, as now they will be paying to come to work. When you earn $18 an hour, and you have to pay the Midtown Tunnel toll, or you have to pay the Harlem Tunnel toll, you're already paying to come work in here, and now you're going to add another toll, it'll simply be no longer worth coming to work.

So those areas have three EMS stations. And if those members simply say, I'm not coming to work anymore, the response times in those areas will significantly increase, even though traffic may decrease, because the responding units will be coming from Queens, Brooklyn or Upper Manhattan.

Emergency response times in New York City have been getting longer, year after year. That's according to Mayor Eric Adams’ annual management report.

City Councilmember Joann Ariola, who represents parts of Queens, and Oren Barzilay, president of EMS Local 2507 Uniformed EMTs, Paramedics, and Fire Inspectors of FDNY, joined WNYC’s Tiffany Hanssen to talk about the dangers of increases wait times.

The following interview has been lightly edited for clarity.

Tiffany Hanssen: Oren, after a call is made to 911,those first couple of minutes are critical, so I'm wondering what happens when responders just aren't quick enough?

Oren Barzilay: It's not a secret that after four to six minutes of not breathing, you're going to be pronounced either clinically or biologically dead. So when it takes us over 10 minutes to get to a critical incident, such as somebody who's not breathing, or having a stroke, or is choking, their life expectancy decreases significantly.

I'm curious what you've been hearing from your members, the emergency responders in Local 2507 about these longer wait times. What are they telling you in terms of why this is happening?

Barzilay: They can only do one assignment at a time. They are running across the city all day long, every day, 24 hours. The issue that they're faced with is the calls are coming in more rapidly in recent years, however, our resources have remained the same.

Before the merger of New York City EMS into the FDNY, we used to have nurses at our 911 call centers. And when they call of somebody, you know, breaking their nail or have an ingrown hair, toothache, that call would go to that nurse and that nurse will explain to them that they do not need an ambulance for this. Go to your local doctor. Go to an urgent care center.

You know, calling 911 and arriving at the hospital with an ambulance does not get you seen quicker. They'll be putting you in the waiting room with the rest of the people who are in the waiting room. It's a huge lift. And unless they bring back the nurses and start educating the public, this is going to be continuing. Well, for eternity.

Salaries start at around $40,000 annually — less than an app delivery worker. So how does that affect the number and the type of people that you can recruit for these positions.

Barzilay: Unfortunately the city — the Office of Management and Budget and the mayor's office — doesn't respect our men and women. We represent the largest [percentage] of people of color, largest group of women in the workforce, and starting salary is $18 an hour.

People just come here as a transitional city job until somebody else gives them a call from another city agency that pays them a hell of a lot more than FDNY EMS. Our average lifetime [in these jobs] is two to three years.

Experience has a huge impact on patient outcomes as well. You can be book savvy, you can be smart. However, if you don't recognize the symptoms of doing call after call after call, you start learning how the symptoms change from one call to the other. And our members have two to three years. They don't get to be exposed to what a 20-year person has been through.

Councilmember Ariola, let's talk about a meeting that you chaired earlier this month talking about the FDNY EMS response times. So what did the FDNY have to say about this?

Ariola: The FDNY historically does not complain. They don't ask for more money every year. We get our budget report and we have not, under the previous commissioner, we have not had any fiscal needs meetings or hearings. I'm hoping that this changes with the new commissioner. I think it will.

We're losing good talent to other agencies or they're just going through EMT training just to become a firefighter. It's just not right. We have to get more money for EMTs, more ambulances on our streets, more places for the ambulances to be stationed. So there's not so much gap time when they have to respond to an emergency.

There's an area in my district called Breezy Point. It's in such a gap area, if they call 911 for an EMS to come or an ambulance to come, it has to come from Brooklyn or way down on the peninsula. And we have seen fatalities in that area because of that. But for the amount of money that is getting paid, how long will those men and women — most of which are Black or brown, how will they be able to support a family that can't? We really have to put FDNY first in the budget process in the upcoming fiscal cycle.

Councilmember, we already have snarled traffic, an increase in the number of bike lanes, double parking and now congestion pricing; a $9 toll to enter Manhattan south of 60th Street. So I'm curious what you think about congestion pricing and what that would do to either help or maybe hurt emergency responders.

Ariola: I don't think that the congestion pricing is going to help at all because I think people will continue to come in with their cars because they don't feel that the subway system is reliable and/or safe. So we're still going to see the same amount of vehicles. There's also the issue of the city of New York closing streets arbitrarily and not notifying the FDNY. So oftentimes they're on their way to an emergency, whether it's an ambulance or a fire department rig, a ladder or engine, and they're not able to navigate through because they were never notified that those streets were closed.

Oren, what would you like to see city and state officials do most immediately to help first responders be able to do their job?

Barzilay: You know, one thing I forgot to mention before I answer this question is, I have members who live in shelters. I have members who live in their cars. I have members who live in their family house because they simply can't afford living in the city. So adding a $9 toll is going to be detrimental to my men and women. And my men and women will more than likely quit if this goes through, as now they will be paying to come to work. When you earn $18 an hour, and you have to pay the Midtown Tunnel toll, or you have to pay the Harlem Tunnel toll, you're already paying to come work in here, and now you're going to add another toll, it'll simply be no longer worth coming to work.

So those areas have three EMS stations. And if those members simply say, I'm not coming to work anymore, the response times in those areas will significantly increase, even though traffic may decrease, because the responding units will be coming from Queens, Brooklyn or Upper Manhattan.