“He Wouldn't Have Done That If I Were a Man”: Ana Liss, Former Cuomo Aide, On Why She Spoke Out

It’s been two weeks since the first former staffer, Lindsey Boylan, came forward with allegations of sexual harassment while working for New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. In that time, five other women have detailed accounts of inappropriate behavior from Cuomo. The governor has brushed off calls for his resignation and asked New Yorkers to await the results of Attorney General Letitia James’ investigation.

“There are allegations, and then there are allegations,” Cuomo said on a press call Tuesday afternoon. “Let’s get the facts and then we can have a discussion on the facts.”

One of the women who has come forward is Ana Liss, now 35, who worked as a policy adviser in Cuomo’s Albany office between 2013 and 2015 after receiving a competitive state fellowship. She first described her experiences in his office anonymously to Gothamist/WNYC, recounting how she was told to wear heels by another staffer and regularly kissed on the cheek by the governor. She later spoke on the record to the Wall Street Journal about her experience.

We followed up with Liss, who is currently the director Monroe County’s Department of Planning and Development, in an on the record conversation about what it’s been like since she came forward, and why she decided to speak out.

What was it like to be in that executive suite?

There was a rulebook. But it wasn't a written rulebook. The rules are different. So overnight I had to change how I presented myself in the workplace, I learned by observing others, and from some sage advice from that administrative assistant who told me I had to wear heels.

I learned about the rule that men had to wear white shirts. I learned that the governor only wears Salvatore Ferragamo ties.

I learned that you don't speak to the man unless he speaks to you. Don't try to. Don't try to approach him unless he approaches you.

Did you see Cuomo get angry at work?

I heard him get angry a lot. And I heard his top aides at the time get angry. The tone was set at the top. It was not a professional workplace environment. You could always cut the tension with a knife.

How would you describe your relationship with the governor?

I think he just thought I was a cutie pie. He thought I was a cute young lady from upstate, who is there as part of his fellowship program [and] who admired him.

The salutation of a kiss on a cheek, was that happening every day in the office?

Yeah, whenever Cuomo was in Albany and whenever he came through the office suite. It was always friendly, flirtatious, joking, kissing on the cheek. He put his hand on the small of my back at a couple of different functions, any time we were photographed together, which was on three or four occasions. And I could feel his eyeballs.

He put a hand on me, or when he drew me near to him on those limited occasions, I didn’t really know to characterize it at the time for myself. He wouldn't have done that if I were a man. I wouldn't have sat in that chair if I was a man. I wouldn't have been photographed with him like that if I were a man.

Did you think of it as sexual harassment or inappropriate behavior at the time, and how are you thinking about it now?

I thought that he thought that I was pretty. I thought that he found me attractive. I did not fear that he would harm me physically. But I knew that I was sitting there because of what I look like and that if I was a guy or if I didn't fit a certain stereotype, I very likely wouldn't have been sitting in that chair. And I view that as problematic.

When you hear about the allegations made by Charlotte Bennett and Lindsey Boylan, how do you think about what happened to you?

I feel like what happened to me was on a slippery slope. When I was reading about what happened to them, I was thinking, "Thank god I wasn't higher up... thank god I wasn't around him alone, by myself, and thank God he didn't take me seriously." Because you know, I believe them, I believe Lindsay and Charlotte.

You at first spoke about your experiences with WNYC/Gothamist anonymously and later decided to go public speaking on the record to the Wall Street Journal. What made you change your mind?

Revisiting all these memories, things that I blocked out of my mind. Things that I pretended never happened because they didn't fit neatly and tightly into my life story. And just taking a step back, weighing both sides — the pros and cons — and understanding that. Even if I have to pay a price for this, it's the right thing to do.

Why do you feel like it's the right thing to do?

Because Albany, because the governor's office, is not a safe place for young women. For young women like me who have put a lot of faith in other people. It was like a cancer, and I wanted to come back to where life was a little bit more innocent. And I think that he plays a role in propagating that environment. He benefits from it. Many men benefit from it. And I'm sad for myself. I lied to my mom and my dad, they knew something was wrong and they were trying to protect me, and I remember them wanting so badly to know what really was going on, what was really wrong. I would never tell them.

[I thought] I got a fellowship and I'm going to make a difference, and I love Rochester and the governor is a champion for upstate New York. And then, months passed and a couple of years passed and every light that had been burning bright inside me was shut off.

What has it been like since you spoke out publicly?

Everybody told me, don't read the comments, don't read the comments. I mean, the governor, up until very recently, has been completely untouchable and the most powerful person in New York State, and one of the most powerful Democrats in the whole country.

I had never told anybody about any of this. It was never a part of my story. I'm glad I shared because another woman came out Tuesday, and I'd like to think that maybe some part of her felt emboldened to speak up because I did.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.